Reptiles - Geckos, Lizards, Snakes, and Turtles!

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Re: Reptiles - Geckos, Lizards, Snakes, and Turtles!

Postby kivr & fireflii » Wed May 30, 2018 11:25 am

birbmememaster24 wrote:i’m thinking about getting a young ball python, and i’m wondering how much i’d cost for the set up roughly (i know it varies)


It depends on quite a bit. The main things that can run expensively are the enclosure, heating elements, the thermostat. Something like PVC are most expensive while tubs are cheapest. PVC, depending on the size, would run about $250 (for a 4x2x2). Tank, if you get it during the 1 gallon/$1 Petco or PetSmart sale, can run $10-40 depending what size you get. A 16qt tub is about $6-10 while a larger one (like 100 qt) may be about $20.

Heating elements being an undertank heater and/or lamps. Depending on what your house temperature is and what type of enclosure you have will influence how many and/or what kind of heating elements you need. Beginners generally have a UTH and a heat lamp. UTH can be anywhere from $15 to $30 depending on size and brand. Zoomeds are popular and generally cheaper, but may not last as long. Ultratherm, one example of an expensive brand, is more expensive and what I personally used when I had UTH. Heat tape is another option that can be used instead of a UTH and is generally used with rack systems or tubs, and that's cheapest (about $3 for 1 foot). Heat lamps depend on what type of bulb (ranging from about $5-20 for the bulb, and then another $20 or so for a dome or lamp cage). CHE is my personal recommendation (make sure you get a dome/cage/clamp with a porcelain socket). Radiant Heat Panels are more commonly used in PVC, but sometimes in tubs. Those are about $65-120 depending on the size/wattage.

Thermostats range a lot. The cheapest, while being semi-reliable, are around $32. The most expensive, but most reliable ones, are ones like Herpstat and Vivarium Eletronics which are about $80-100 for a single output thermostat (there are some that have multiple outputs, such as the Herpstat 4 which has 4 outputs but is $339).

Temperature gun and digital thermometer/hygrometer for measuring temperatures and humidity is a must. Thermometer/hygrometers are cheap, a bit less than $10 for one (two is recommended for warm side and cool side). A temperature gun is about $10-20, but they all generally work the same.

Substrate ranges. Cheapest would be paper towels or newspaper, one or both you likely already have in your home. Reptile carpet, astroturf, aspen, cypress mulch, coco husk, coco chip, forest floor, ecoearth, orchid bark, etc. are all ones I've seen used. The most popular tend to be either paper towels, aspen, or something that holds humidity better (like cypress mulch or coco chip). Aspen is about $17 for 24 qt while something like Reptichip (coco chip, what I personally use) is about $26 for 72qt. Most of those substrates will last a few months.

Hides generally range from $3-20. Ideally, you'll want two at minimum (one for cool side and one for warm side).

Water bowl about $3 for a small snake, $6 for large one (if you go cheaper). More realistic looking water bowls can be like $3 to $15.

So, theoretically, here's a really cheap set up for a young ball python (like under 300g):
- Tub ~ $2 for a 16qt tub with latches from Target
- Small undertank heater ~ $16 from Amazon by ZooMed
- Thermostat ~ $32 from Amazon
- Thermometer/hygrometer ~ $16 for two by Acurite on Amazon
- Temperature gun ~ $10 on Amazon
- IF your house is cold and the ambient temperature is too low, ceramic heat emitter ~ $20 from Amazon by ZooMed
--- lamp cage ~ $24 from Amazon by ZooMed
- Paper towels ~ $2 for one cheap roll from Walmart
- Two hides ~ $6 from Reptile Basics
- Water bowl ~ $3 from Reptile Basics

=== less than $100 w/o lamp and clamp, about $50 more w/ lamp and clamp

Obviously these are super estimated. Doesn't include any tax or shipping. For some you may go to a local store and find it's more expensive (my 16 qt tub was about $7 in person). This doesn't include the snake, feeders, or other supplies you'll want to get (digital scale, tongs, disinfectant, etc.). It also doesn't include decor which I 100% recommend but isn't necessarily necessary at start up (especially when you're quarantining your animal for the first 3 months, after, you'll want to get some leafy vines, branches, etc.). As the snake grows bigger, you'll need to upgrade the enclosure and get bigger feeders. Vet costs may also crop up if you come across an issue. These snakes can live over 40 years, so while the start up costs may seem cheap, they will get more expensive as they get bigger. I upgraded my snake enclosure and some supplies a few months ago, just for two snakes, and I spent about $500.
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Re: Reptiles - Geckos, Lizards, Snakes, and Turtles!

Postby birbmememaster24 » Wed May 30, 2018 12:05 pm

winter & fireflii wrote:
birbmememaster24 wrote:i’m thinking about getting a young ball python, and i’m wondering how much i’d cost for the set up roughly (i know it varies)


It depends on quite a bit. The main things that can run expensively are the enclosure, heating elements, the thermostat. Something like PVC are most expensive while tubs are cheapest. PVC, depending on the size, would run about $250 (for a 4x2x2). Tank, if you get it during the 1 gallon/$1 Petco or PetSmart sale, can run $10-40 depending what size you get. A 16qt tub is about $6-10 while a larger one (like 100 qt) may be about $20.

Heating elements being an undertank heater and/or lamps. Depending on what your house temperature is and what type of enclosure you have will influence how many and/or what kind of heating elements you need. Beginners generally have a UTH and a heat lamp. UTH can be anywhere from $15 to $30 depending on size and brand. Zoomeds are popular and generally cheaper, but may not last as long. Ultratherm, one example of an expensive brand, is more expensive and what I personally used when I had UTH. Heat tape is another option that can be used instead of a UTH and is generally used with rack systems or tubs, and that's cheapest (about $3 for 1 foot). Heat lamps depend on what type of bulb (ranging from about $5-20 for the bulb, and then another $20 or so for a dome or lamp cage). CHE is my personal recommendation (make sure you get a dome/cage/clamp with a porcelain socket). Radiant Heat Panels are more commonly used in PVC, but sometimes in tubs. Those are about $65-120 depending on the size/wattage.

Thermostats range a lot. The cheapest, while being semi-reliable, are around $32. The most expensive, but most reliable ones, are ones like Herpstat and Vivarium Eletronics which are about $80-100 for a single output thermostat (there are some that have multiple outputs, such as the Herpstat 4 which has 4 outputs but is $339).

Temperature gun and digital thermometer/hygrometer for measuring temperatures and humidity is a must. Thermometer/hygrometers are cheap, a bit less than $10 for one (two is recommended for warm side and cool side). A temperature gun is about $10-20, but they all generally work the same.

Substrate ranges. Cheapest would be paper towels or newspaper, one or both you likely already have in your home. Reptile carpet, astroturf, aspen, cypress mulch, coco husk, coco chip, forest floor, ecoearth, orchid bark, etc. are all ones I've seen used. The most popular tend to be either paper towels, aspen, or something that holds humidity better (like cypress mulch or coco chip). Aspen is about $17 for 24 qt while something like Reptichip (coco chip, what I personally use) is about $26 for 72qt. Most of those substrates will last a few months.

Hides generally range from $3-20. Ideally, you'll want two at minimum (one for cool side and one for warm side).

Water bowl about $3 for a small snake, $6 for large one (if you go cheaper). More realistic looking water bowls can be like $3 to $15.

So, theoretically, here's a really cheap set up for a young ball python (like under 300g):
- Tub ~ $2 for a 16qt tub with latches from Target
- Small undertank heater ~ $16 from Amazon by ZooMed
- Thermostat ~ $32 from Amazon
- Thermometer/hygrometer ~ $16 for two by Acurite on Amazon
- Temperature gun ~ $10 on Amazon
- IF your house is cold and the ambient temperature is too low, ceramic heat emitter ~ $20 from Amazon by ZooMed
--- lamp cage ~ $24 from Amazon by ZooMed
- Paper towels ~ $2 for one cheap roll from Walmart
- Two hides ~ $6 from Reptile Basics
- Water bowl ~ $3 from Reptile Basics

=== less than $100 w/o lamp and clamp, about $50 more w/ lamp and clamp

Obviously these are super estimated. Doesn't include any tax or shipping. For some you may go to a local store and find it's more expensive (my 16 qt tub was about $7 in person). This doesn't include the snake, feeders, or other supplies you'll want to get (digital scale, tongs, disinfectant, etc.). It also doesn't include decor which I 100% recommend but isn't necessarily necessary at start up (especially when you're quarantining your animal for the first 3 months, after, you'll want to get some leafy vines, branches, etc.). As the snake grows bigger, you'll need to upgrade the enclosure and get bigger feeders. Vet costs may also crop up if you come across an issue. These snakes can live over 40 years, so while the start up costs may seem cheap, they will get more expensive as they get bigger. I upgraded my snake enclosure and some supplies a few months ago, just for two snakes, and I spent about $500.
-fireflii


Thank you so so much! My local pet store is doing a shop and sale expo in June and i am hoping to find a good price baby, although the shop sells like 80 dollar baby normal pythons. I was just wondering if i have the money for this currently
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Re: Reptiles - Geckos, Lizards, Snakes, and Turtles!

Postby kivr & fireflii » Wed May 30, 2018 12:22 pm

birbmememaster24 wrote:Thank you so so much! My local pet store is doing a shop and sale expo in June and i am hoping to find a good price baby, although the shop sells like 80 dollar baby normal pythons. I was just wondering if i have the money for this currently


I would definitely wait for an expo if you can. Pet stores overprice their snakes so much. At my local Petco/Petsmart, a normal ball python is like $200. At a reptile expo, you can find for as low as $15-20. If you're having trouble with the start up costs, though, it's worth it to wait and save up. If your snake is unhealthy or something goes wrong, it'll take a lot of money to get it healthy again. Not to mention, depending what you feed (live vs f/t) and where you get it, that's a weekly expense as well. You definitely don't want to get an animal with the mindset of being as cheap as possible because, inevitably, something will cost more than you think at some point or there will be unexpected costs.
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Re: Reptiles - Geckos, Lizards, Snakes, and Turtles!

Postby birbmememaster24 » Wed May 30, 2018 12:47 pm

winter & fireflii wrote:
birbmememaster24 wrote:Thank you so so much! My local pet store is doing a shop and sale expo in June and i am hoping to find a good price baby, although the shop sells like 80 dollar baby normal pythons. I was just wondering if i have the money for this currently


I would definitely wait for an expo if you can. Pet stores overprice their snakes so much. At my local Petco/Petsmart, a normal ball python is like $200. At a reptile expo, you can find for as low as $15-20. If you're having trouble with the start up costs, though, it's worth it to wait and save up. If your snake is unhealthy or something goes wrong, it'll take a lot of money to get it healthy again. Not to mention, depending what you feed (live vs f/t) and where you get it, that's a weekly expense as well. You definitely don't want to get an animal with the mindset of being as cheap as possible because, inevitably, something will cost more than you think at some point or there will be unexpected costs.
-fireflii


i think i may wait for a new expo, even though it breaks my heart. I may go just to look because i don’t know if i have the money to support a snake long term, plus i’m still convincing my momma haha she’s the queen of the house and does not like danger noodles, i think she’s starting to like them but won’t admit it though
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Re: Reptiles - Geckos, Lizards, Snakes, and Turtles!

Postby kivr & fireflii » Wed May 30, 2018 3:14 pm

birbmememaster24 wrote:i think i may wait for a new expo, even though it breaks my heart. I may go just to look because i don’t know if i have the money to support a snake long term, plus i’m still convincing my momma haha she’s the queen of the house and does not like danger noodles, i think she’s starting to like them but won’t admit it though


That's probably for the best. It will give you time to convince your mom, too. :) If you can, see if you can get her to come to an expo. Exposure is one of the best ways to help snake phobia.
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Re: Reptiles - Geckos, Lizards, Snakes, and Turtles!

Postby birbmememaster24 » Wed May 30, 2018 7:26 pm

winter & fireflii wrote:
birbmememaster24 wrote:i think i may wait for a new expo, even though it breaks my heart. I may go just to look because i don’t know if i have the money to support a snake long term, plus i’m still convincing my momma haha she’s the queen of the house and does not like danger noodles, i think she’s starting to like them but won’t admit it though


That's probably for the best. It will give you time to convince your mom, too. :) If you can, see if you can get her to come to an expo. Exposure is one of the best ways to help snake phobia.
-fireflii





that’s how i got over my fear! I held a pretty big python, i think her name was ruby, and fell in love with them. They amaze me, i think they’re such beautiful animals and AH they’re little snoot they have like 8 heat nostrils, so i’m thinking i’ll take her to the expo or the pet store and getting her to hold a baby one, they’re the least intimidating to me.
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Re: Reptiles - Geckos, Lizards, Snakes, and Turtles!

Postby takatoro » Thu May 31, 2018 7:09 am

Okay, so I decided to get some crickets today for my gecko, Pudding, as I've only really been used to feeding him 2 waxworms a day to help him settle in and put on some weight (he's 8 weeks old, have had him for about 3 days).
Unfortunately, I found that my brain also really does not like the sight of crickets.
How would I go about becoming used to them, and any advice on keeping them contained + healthy?

I have a small cricket keeper, bug gel + bug feed, also how many should I put in? I seem to have put quite a large amount in. Some pile a bit, not much though. Have I overfilled it? They're pretty small-medium brown crickets, and I'm afraid some may escape.

My anxiety is through the roof right now. I have this container: xx
Sorry if this was posted in the wrong subforum, or that there's a better topic for this.

I'm also really terrified that they'll eat Pudding. I've heard people saying that they accidentally left a cricket in the vivarium and it killed the gecko.

Should I remain getting crickets, or are they not recommended? What's a good substitute for crickets (except cockroaches or locusts, they freak me the hell out, man).
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Re: Reptiles - Geckos, Lizards, Snakes, and Turtles!

Postby kivr & fireflii » Thu May 31, 2018 7:55 am

birbmememaster24 wrote:that’s how i got over my fear! I held a pretty big python, i think her name was ruby, and fell in love with them. They amaze me, i think they’re such beautiful animals and AH they’re little snoot they have like 8 heat nostrils, so i’m thinking i’ll take her to the expo or the pet store and getting her to hold a baby one, they’re the least intimidating to me.


That sounds good. :) Just be sure to go slow. If she doesn't want to hold, don't force her. Petting is fine too, if she'll do it. You don't want to end up in a "one step forward, two steps back" situation. It may take a few trips for her to get more comfortable.
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Re: Reptiles - Geckos, Lizards, Snakes, and Turtles!

Postby birbmememaster24 » Thu May 31, 2018 8:40 am

winter & fireflii wrote:
birbmememaster24 wrote:that’s how i got over my fear! I held a pretty big python, i think her name was ruby, and fell in love with them. They amaze me, i think they’re such beautiful animals and AH they’re little snoot they have like 8 heat nostrils, so i’m thinking i’ll take her to the expo or the pet store and getting her to hold a baby one, they’re the least intimidating to me.


That sounds good. :) Just be sure to go slow. If she doesn't want to hold, don't force her. Petting is fine too, if she'll do it. You don't want to end up in a "one step forward, two steps back" situation. It may take a few trips for her to get more comfortable.
-fireflii


she’s also annoyed when i send her cute snake photos
how is it annoying they’re like blessings from god himself

she says she hates snakes and i don’t think it helps me and her dont get along great for other reasons, but i am determined to make her at least like them, or not even like them, just tolerate them
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Re: Reptiles - Geckos, Lizards, Snakes, and Turtles!

Postby kivr & fireflii » Thu May 31, 2018 8:49 am

birbmememaster24 wrote:she’s also annoyed when i send her cute snake photos
how is it annoying they’re like blessings from god himself

she says she hates snakes and i don’t think it helps me and her dont get along great for other reasons, but i am determined to make her at least like them, or not even like them, just tolerate them


I probably wouldn't send pictures. Even if you think they're cute, I'm sure she doesn't. I personally REALLY don't like roaches, and I would really hate it if someone sent me pictures of them (they are in no way, shape, or form "cute" to me). It may help to actually sit down and have a nice discussion about why she doesn't like them. Try not to judge and say "but they're cute, look at their puppy faces", etc. because in the long run, that doesn't help. What can help is addressing what fears she has. Is she afraid the snake will escape? If so, you can talk about how your enclosure will have a locking lid. Is she afraid it will hurt you, her, or another pet? If so, you can explain how snakes are only defensive, not aggressive. They would not bite unless they recognize something as food (and you can explain how a human would be seen more as a predator, and their natural diet consists of small mammals and birds). If she doens't like seeing it, you could try to discuss a possible location to house your snake (ex. in your room, out of sight of her passing by). Ask if there's anything you can do to address her fears, something you can work out with her, etc. But if she says no, don't push it. If you get pushy, you get annoying, and when you get annoying, she's even less likely to accept a snake in the house.
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