Discussion: Lets talk about the community

[Cookie1992]

Well lets rephrase my previous topic, as it turned in a discussion from moment one and it was far from bullying anyone it was something a lot of people seem to feel but rarely dare to speak about and was kept friendly; people actually felt grateful for me opening the topic.... Everyone is free to trade in a way they want, but Id like to create awareness among the players in a friendly way.

To any moderators, if you find that this still doesnt follow the rules then please contact me rather than close it down right away. Im more than willing to change it so it does meet all rules. Im simply hoping that awareness might improve parts of how the community act towards eachother; Im by no means trying to insult/single out (a group of) people.

The rules
- This is a FRIENDLY discussion
- Everyone can speak their mind on the topic
- No one is to be singled out/called by name
- No one is to be attacked upon their point of view
- Follow the general CS rules

Little background
Ive been here since 2008 back in the day the community was friendly and people usually used their own brain to decide if a trade was fair. Sometimes you made a mistake (oh man Ive looked back and I made tons!) but usually people came out of a trade both owning new pets they liked or needed; even if the trade was a little unfair. There was no list, no "is this a fair trade" topic and no people interfering with trades.

Around 2011 my luck seemed to have dissapeared completly (not that I was too lucky before that) and more and more often I missed a lot of monthly outcomes, my december 18th draws were rather bad and I seemed to fail more and more in obtaining what I missed out on. Eventually I got tired of it and just stopped coming around, I didnt felt like giving it all away so my account became frozen in time.

December 2016 CS popped up in my head again and I decided to take a look. Landing in the middle of the advent adopts meant I came back daily and soon I started trading for the 5 years of missing dogs. It only took me 2 weeks to get just about all of them; but of course there were some painful hard to get dogs like the old store dogs and list dogs. This list was new to me but within a few trades I got sick of it.

People had plenty of the old 2008 and 2009 pets I owned (by now almost all rares and very rares) on their wishlist, but even with a bunch of those oldies people kept yelling "mines on the LIST" irritating me beyond believe. It came to a point where someone dared to tell me that their UR Holly/Tiger was worth an x number of nons and, as I didnt own those, was equal to about 2500 rares/very rares from 2008-2010. As I didnt had that either (who on earth would?!) they would simply accept all my spare pets and take their loss.....

Sadly my experience from there on hasnt improved much, there are a fair few people that arent obsessed with the list and are still generous but sadly they are hidden beneath a thick thick layer of people who see the list not as a tool but as the CS law that has to be followed.

Points of discussion
(please note these are just some directions we could go in, feel free to talk about related stuff too!)
- How do you feel the community is today (compared to when you started)?
- What do you think about the list?
- Should the list stay or go?
- Is the list a tool or the law?
- What could be done to change things?
- Do you think people have become greedy?
- What changes would you like to see?

[storme]

honestly, i'm not really that old (i've been around since 2014) but i do dislike the fact that certain list pets are going for way way wayy more than what they are really worth. i admit i have been a part of that by paying mainlists for advent pets, though. also how some high list pets are not going for what they are worth just because people dislike their design/species. it's been such a hassle trying to trade off rats and low demand pets, even if i'm asking for pets lower than their actual worth. i'm looking forward to a list without factoring demand, although i know many users will still go by the current list.

i consider the list a tool - just a user-made guide that helps but is not official. it's extremely rare to find someone who actually follows the list and doesn't ask for more. i wish that would change because there are some pets that i love, but i know i will never be able to get them. that's why i just try to focus more on other aspects of cs, not so much the pets.

whenever i see a canceled trade with a message like "sorry, i can get much more for my pet," i get discouraged and i stop trading for a while because i know i probably won't get anywhere. although i don't entirely blame them, because yes, i admit sometimes i'm like that as well and i get caught up in the demand but i try my best to trade fairly and remind the other user if they're overpaying by a lot. sure there are many generous players who gift some valuable pets, but i feel like nowadays i come across way more greedy players. it's not like i didn't expect it though, with the large amount of players that have been joining every year.

hopefully, this discussion will stay friendly and unlocked haha since i do feel like the last discussion/rant sorta targeted the 'rich' players of cs and may have offended some.

[Bilaz]

Hi everyone! I'm a new player from 2016.
I admit I feel when it comes to high value pets that the economy is a little... Broken? I really can't trade by the list, the gaps are too hard to follow and add up and everything is far too expensive. I mean, I get that the Sunjewel is one of the rarest pets on the site but is it really worth THAT much in 2009 rares? The 'demand' card makes it even more difficult to follow.

So, to get my dreamies I had to go for a different approach. I sold bulk pets for C$ and used the C$ to buy my dream pets, it's far more reasonable that way,

Thank goodness I've found hoarding as a way to spend my time here! I feel that with trading for common pets you find the best side of Chickensmoothie. I've traded with lovely generous people who just edit my trade so it's less on my side, or even edit it to be a gift. Even when my trade is just simply accepted with a kind message it makes my day. The friendly, generous community atmosphere is definitely still here! You are just less likely to find it when clicking on topics of people advertising all their 'in demand list pets'

[Cookie1992]

honestly, i'm not really that old (i've been around since 2014) but i do dislike the fact that certain list pets are going for way way wayy more than what they are really worth. i admit i have been a part of that by paying mainlists for advent pets, though. also how some high list pets are not going for what they are worth just because people dislike their design/species. it's been such a hassle trying to trade off rats and low demand pets, even if i'm asking for pets lower than their actual worth. i'm looking forward to a list without factoring demand, although i know many users will still go by the current list.

i consider the list a tool - just a user-made guide that helps but is not official. it's extremely rare to find someone who actually follows the list and doesn't ask for more. i wish that would change because there are some pets that i love, but i know i will never be able to get them. that's why i just try to focus more on other aspects of cs, not so much the pets.

whenever i see a canceled trade with a message like "sorry, i can get much more for my pet," i get discouraged and i stop trading for a while because i know i probably won't get anywhere. although i don't entirely blame them, because yes, i admit sometimes i'm like that as well and i get caught up in the demand but i try my best to trade fairly and remind the other user if they're overpaying by a lot. sure there are many generous players who gift some valuable pets, but i feel like nowadays i come across way more greedy players. it's not like i didn't expect it though, with the large amount of players that have been joining every year.

hopefully, this discussion will stay friendly and unlocked haha since i do feel like the last discussion/rant sorta targeted the 'rich' players of cs and may have offended some.

Honestly we all do want to get our worth in some way or an other, Im definitly not saying everyone should gift everything to everyone. For example yesterday someone asked me to trade some random uncommon from 2008 for an uncommon for 2017, now Im far from picky if it comes to uncommons usually but a 9 year gap was even for that very low demand old uncommon just a little too little. I completely get that people want to get something out a trade, but my issue is mainly WHAT they want to get. If I trade I trade to get something that I really want, while a lot of my trade partners dont seem to care about getting what they miss/want; but they seem to trade to just get a much as they possibly can so they can trade on with that. Besides that it wouldnt really hurt more of us to every now and again be just a bit nicer and trade below our standards; Im perfectly okay with giving someone just a bit more value back especially if they have less than I do.

Heh its why I left that specific aspect out as its actually not just the 'rich' that make the community feel greedy but anyone that uses the list as more than the user made guide it is supposed to be. As it was written in a rant it could have offended some ^^ Although I got several messages from people saying they agreed and thought it was great I spoke my mind. So I figured I at least hit a spot people want to talk about (although I might not have done it in the right way XD).

Hi everyone! I'm a new player from 2016.
I admit I feel when it comes to high value pets that the economy is a little... Broken? I really can't trade by the list, the gaps are too hard to follow and add up and everything is far too expensive. I mean, I get that the Sunjewel is one of the rarest pets on the site but is it really worth THAT much in 2009 rares? The 'demand' card makes it even more difficult to follow.

So, to get my dreamies I had to go for a different approach. I sold bulk pets for C$ and used the C$ to buy my dream pets, it's far more reasonable that way,

Thank goodness I've found hoarding as a way to spend my time here! I feel that with trading for common pets you find the best side of Chickensmoothie. I've traded with lovely generous people who just edit my trade so it's less on my side, or even edit it to be a gift. Even when my trade is just simply accepted with a kind message it makes my day. The friendly, generous community atmosphere is definitely still here! You are just less likely to find it when clicking on topics of people advertising all their 'in demand list pets'

i completly agree; when I got back to CS I didnt understand anything from that list and even now when I see "advent tier 6" Im like "yeah whatever its a pet I want it GIVE IT!" XD I just cant make much of that list usually.

If you are trading for the more regular pets people all of a sudden get a lot more relaxed and indeed some do warn about overpaying or are willing to gift occasionally even. But dont try to get bunnies.... none of the rules seem to apply upon them as they are rather loved it seemed.

[Ventru]

I only recently returned here, but have been playing pretty long before that.
Back in my day (yeah, I know) I feel like people were less greedy in the sense that they were more willing to help each other. The community was a bit smaller, and people knew each other (on certain boards) and there were big threads focused on getting one (or more) people their dream pet. Some of my fondest memories of this site are of making friends and sending dozens of new rares to someone for one of my friends' dreamies. We all pitched in and eventually got her a dreamie. It was pretty fun.
I don't think that's the case anymore nowadays, unfortunately.
However, I do think it's nice to have a bigger community. The more the merrier! :D

[Bilaz]

i completly agree; when I got back to CS I didnt understand anything from that list and even now when I see "advent tier 6" Im like "yeah whatever its a pet I want it GIVE IT!" XD I just cant make much of that list usually.

If you are trading for the more regular pets people all of a sudden get a lot more relaxed and indeed some do warn about overpaying or are willing to gift occasionally even. But dont try to get bunnies.... none of the rules seem to apply upon them as they are rather loved it seemed.

I think with the bunnies it might be because those are not regular monthlies but Easter event pets? I think a lot of them might have been token pets.

[Shian]

but usually people came out of a trade both owning new pets they liked or needed; even if the trade was a little unfair. There was no list, no "is this a fair trade" topic and no people interfering with trades.

Do you like ninjas? 'cause this is how you get them. There's a reason why the site is absolutely plastered with "don't trade until you know its value" messages on Dec 18th.
It's very common for people who know better to offer some "common" rares for someone's list pet that's marked as unknown but is known to grow into a very rare and someone ends up being cheated out of a hard to get pet.
Most especially the URs which are the rarest pets on the site.

I'm sorry you're having such a hard time with getting the absolute rarest pets on the site but since you're not taking helpful advice on how to get them and continue to make snide remarks about people's intelligence, this is still nothing but a rant thread.

people usually used their own brain

[Bilaz]

but usually people came out of a trade both owning new pets they liked or needed; even if the trade was a little unfair. There was no list, no "is this a fair trade" topic and no people interfering with trades.

Do you like ninjas? 'cause this is how you get them. There's a reason why the site is absolutely plastered with "don't trade until you know its value" messages on Dec 18th.
It's very common for people who know better to offer some "common" rares for someone's list pet that's marked as unknown but is known to grow into a very rare and someone ends up being cheated out of a hard to get pet.
Most especially the URs which are the rarest pets on the site.

I'm sorry you're having such a hard time with getting the absolute rarest pets on the site but since you're not taking helpful advice on how to get them and continue to make snide remarks about people's intelligence, this is still nothing but a rant thread.

people usually used their own brain

Just because a trade follows the list doesn't mean it's actually fair though. Much like the three month rule it's just another user based trading agreement. I was a lurker during the whole winter 2016 rares list discussion and I recall someone counting July and August pets based on the amount of users that adopted them and calculated the approximate actual worth of the Sunjewel in Balloon Dogs. They came to the conclusion that it's not nearly worth 5 Nons.

The list with it's obsession of constantly multiplying values (Jewel is 5 Nons, Non is 3 Sorbets, etc.) and set gaps is extremely rigid and doesn't really allow the trading community to flow naturally. Demand making some pets spiral out of control is just making it worse. That combined with it's incompatibility with C$ values gives us a very, ehm, 'interesting' trading climate.

I don't see what's wrong with a more free trading community? In the end something is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it.

[Shian]

As I said before, the list does have its problems, but it certainly prevents someone from trading a "common" very rare for one of the rarest on the site. That's what its function was designed to do- making sure someone isn't getting a grossly unfair deal.

It does need serious help.
The rose rat for example is really hard to find and trade for yet it's not on the list anywhere.
Popular pets like the shima longtail, white Feb etc. that consistently trade for "list pets" yet are never added for.. no reason?
Real rarities like the summer lionesses. (PPS lion) nowhere near the list yet are quite hard to find and trade for.

You have to really know what each pet is going for and why. A trade of a "very rare" Oct 08 heavy stripe dog for a "Very Rare" Advent 08 sounds like a fair deal if you have no idea what the list is, but the truth of the matter is that some advent pets were only given out on certain days. We only got so many whereas the Oct 08 litter had unlimited adopts and the rarities were skewed. Yes, it's a very rare, but it's more on the common side whereas the advent would be on the rarer side.

If you're talking about someone counting re-releases as a gauge of how many, I wouldn't trust that kind of data. For one, not all rares or VRs are released, just those that need replenishing because too may are on dead accounts.

[Bilaz]

As I said before, the list does have its problems, but it certainly prevents someone from trading a "common" very rare for one of the rarest on the site. That's what its function was designed to do- making sure someone isn't getting a grossly unfair deal.

It does need serious help.
The rose rat for example is really hard to find and trade for yet it's not on the list anywhere.
Popular pets like the shima longtail, white Feb etc. that consistently trade for "list pets" yet are never added for.. no reason?
Real rarities like the summer lionesses. (PPS lion) nowhere near the list yet are quite hard to find and trade for.

You have to really know what each pet is going for and why. A trade of a "very rare" Oct 08 heavy stripe dog for a "Very Rare" Advent 08 sounds like a fair deal if you have no idea what the list is, but the truth of the matter is that some advent pets were only given out on certain days. We only got so many whereas the Oct 08 litter had unlimited adopts and the rarities were skewed. Yes, it's a very rare, but it's more on the common side whereas the advent would be on the rarer side.

If you're talking about someone counting re-releases as a gauge of how many, I wouldn't trust that kind of data. For one, not all rares or VRs are released, just those that need replenishing because too may are on dead accounts.

The Octobers are a valid point and I don't deny that a list of some sorts is necessary. I just think the current one is a little too rigid. The rose rat is a tier one advent though if I'm not mistaken?
And no, it wasn't rereleases. This person used active account data on how many people adopted the Julies and how many people adopted the Augusts. Then they also went through the original IDs and calculated the ratios.
It's of course no where near 100% reliable but it does show that our current rarity math is quite off.